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The Amarchand Split: An Excl Interview With Cyril Shroff

Published on Thu, May 07,2015 | 11:20, Updated at Mon, May 11 at 21:04Source : |   Watch Video :

Amarchand Mangaldas is India’s biggest law firm, with over 700 lawyers. Last year, in November the Shroff brothers, Cyril & Shardul, that run the firm were embroiled in a bitter ownership dispute arising out of the will of their mother Bharati Shroff. The matter reached the Bombay High Court and thereafter a mediation panel of Justice Srikrishna, Harish Salve & Nimesh Kampani was appointed.  

On May 7th, the Amarchand split was finalised in the Bombay High Court after a detailed family settlement was arrived at. The 2 brothers agreed to split and bifurcate into separate entities. Cyril Shroff agreed not to contest the will and Shardul Shroff agreed not to press suit regarding the family settlement and arbitral award.  

On 11th May, 2015 Cyril Shroff will launch his own firm – Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas with over 580 lawyers. In this exclusive interview with Menaka Doshi he talks about the past dispute and the future of his new firm.

Cyril Shroff, Managing Partner, Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas

Doshi: I want to start by talking about the very first thought that entered my mind when I heard about the dispute between you and Shardul and that is that it is sad and ironical that the family or the firm rather that has lawyer the biggest business family split in this country and that is the Ambani split is now in the throws of a similar dispute itself. I am curious to know how the two of you let it come to this.

A: First, certain boundary conditions that has been imposed by the mediation and arbitration panel and there is a press release which the panel has shared with us and shared with you as well. I think it is clear that the outcomes are very specific in terms of how the split would happen but I really do not want to get into why and how but since we are more on a philosophical note the fact we might have helped the country’s business families to deal with this would have probably been experience that helped us in coming at a good solution, amicable solution as well. So, let’s leave it at that and let’s not look into the past.

Doshi: But it did get bitter, in fact your own arbitral panel in its press release today has said that it is pleased to announce that it has been successful in its efforts to stave off what threatened to be a long drawn-out and bitter litigation and it did get bigger last year when the first hearing happened. I am just curious, how it is the two of the finest lawyers in this country could not resolve this quietly.

Cyril Shroff: We did resolve it quietly.

Doshi: Not before all your personal laundry was aired in public, not before the media had a field day talking about family assets, wills etc.

Cyril Shroff: Media has a field day all the time so I cannot comment on why the media has a field day.  

Doshi: Why did this come to this?

Cyril Shroff: Some of these things are just matters of destiny.

Doshi: Was this brewing for a long time?

Cyril Shroff: Now, we are getting into the areas of the past and I do not want to.  

Doshi: As far as you are concerned you have put this dispute behind?

Cyril Shroff: Absolutely. I am only looking at the future. My car of life only has a front shield; it doesn’t have a rearview mirror.             

Doshi: Because of this dispute Amarchand Mangaldas which has more than 700 employees and by that measure was the leading law firm in this country, will now no longer be the leading law firm in this country because you will be split into two and therefore Khaitan which was number two now comes very close or maybe even exceeds the numbers that either one of you brothers will have?

Cyril Shroff: Of course the market will decide the pecking order going forward. But, considering that is, we have already done a lot of hiring in preparation for the new firm and of course this is, we have not done any comparative check of what the others numbers are but I still think that Cyril Amarchand is probably going to be the largest firm going sheerly by the number of lawyers. We are just a little short of 600 of lawyers in month one. I have hired about a 100 people, a little over a 100 people in the last few months who will join me from the time that the new firm starts. And they will be joining at different…

Doshi: If I have my numbers correctly, when you were combined or as of yesterday, you were a little over 700.

Cyril Shroff: We were a little over 700 and we hired a lot more people who will be coming on board in the coming weeks as well. So, my current roll call is that we would be about 580 people in the month of June/July.  

Doshi: Cyril Amarchand Shroff will be 580 people in the month of June/July.

Cyril Shroff: Absolutely, and over 91 partners.

Doshi: Over 91 partners? So, you have moved really fast, add to the roles in that sense?  

Cyril Shroff: Absolutely. There were a lot of internal promotions that were outstanding. So, that is part of it. And the balance is lateral recruitment that we have done from the market.

Doshi: Because if I remember correctly, even combined, the two of you, or Amarchand in its erstwhile form, had less than 100 partners. You are saying now individually you will have 91 partners.  

Cyril Shroff: Absolutely. Because of internal promotions that we have done, hires that are on the way and which we are gradually unfolding because some of these people are actually moving out from their firms.  

Doshi: I do want to talk about some of the transition issues that arised from such a split. Typically between you and Mr. Shardul Shroff, you would just find a whole host of agreements, I am assuming which lay out who gets to operate in one geography if at all, unless both of you are now going to operate all-India. Whether there are any non-compete parameters because as of now, or as of yesterday, you were working together on a bunch of clients. Any non-poaching parameters, because you shared talent? How will it work from here on?

Cyril Shroff: After the split we are going to be full-competitors and we are going to operate on a national basis. Part of the significant hiring that I have done is at my New Delhi, proposed New Delhi offices. And going forward because of the governance model being more single leader oriented with a single managing partner, I will be able to move faster and grow much faster as well as in line with what the market requires.

Doshi: Can you give us some numbers on how many partners or how many employees did you inherit from the erstwhile Amarchand, how many have you added in the last few months as you have started working towards a separate identity? What the total numbers look like, not the total partners, but otherwise?

Cyril Shroff: I do not immediately remember the break up. The last role call that we did as we are preparing for this is somewhere between 570 and 580 lawyers in month one.  

Doshi: So, that is what you got as part of the split.

Cyril Shroff: No, you take about 125 lawyers from that is what I inherited and the new addition that I have done and the new addition that I will continue to do going forward in the months to come.

Doshi: You got only 125?

Cyril Shroff: 125 are the new additions.  

Doshi: Both of you will operate pan India now?

Cyril Shroff: We are both going to operate pan India, at least I can speak for myself.   

Doshi: How you are going to deal with clients that you have serviced together?

Cyril Shroff: Good thing is that clients are very smart people. They know how to make choices and they will go where they will get quality.  

Doshi: I know but you must be having ongoing clients that have both offices serviced in separate ways. Can you tell us what the transition for clients will be or if the client was doing some work with you in Mumbai and some work with Shardul on Delhi?

Cyril Shroff: The Mumbai operations and the south operations go with me and the Delhi operations go with Shardul.

Doshi: Can you give us some sense of how many clients you inherited from the erstwhile firm and how many clients he inherited from the erstwhile firm?

Cyril Shroff: We do not keep that kind of inventory of clients but there are lots of clients and both offices have typically acted for a large number of conglomerates. There tends to be regional loyalties but it depends on where you want to get the work done. Really we do not keep that kind of inventory.

Doshi: All the clients at the Mumbai office signed up, the Bangalore office signed up and the Chennai office signed up and they all come to you?

Cyril Shroff: Certain matters can come to us not clients. Clients can still choose to go wherever they want because they have future assignments. The client is the king.

Doshi: In transition, how do you deal with assignments that were ongoing?

Cyril Shroff: We just continue. Nothing changes on the ground.

Doshi: What if Shardul’s team and your team were working on a specific assignment, how do you transit out of that?

Cyril Shroff: We haven’t thought of that. Client will make the choice. If you were a client of the firm you will make the choice where you want to be, isn’t that right?

Doshi: I suppose so but I would also be worried if my matter was currently being worked on by both brothers or both their teams and I am not sure in picking one whether full justice will be done to the the matter or not so I would wait for maybe the …

Cyril Shroff: Clients are very smart in terms of making their choice, they will go where the expertise is and where their personal comfort and relationship is, it is not such a difficult problem.

Doshi: So Shardul got all the clients attached to the Ahmedabad office, the Hyderabad office and the Gurgaon office along with the Delhi office?

Cyril Shroff: Clients are attached to a firm; they are not necessarily attached to an office. They just choose to give their assignments wherever they want.  

Doshi: So how do we understand whether at the end of the day which one of you ended up with which clients, the better clients, the worse-off clients? I am sure some part of this is part of how you settled the entire estate but…(interrupted)

Cyril Shroff: It is not a part of estate, it is a professional service firm with so many outside partners as well so it is just that the Bombay operations I take over and he takes over the Delhi operations and that is it.

Doshi: It is as simple as that?  

Cyril Shroff: It is as simple as that.

Doshi: Do you have an agreement in place for non-poaching of clients?

Cyril Shroff: Whatever is in the press-release is all that I can talk about.

Doshi: The press-release does not say anything about clients or anything like that. It just says that (Audio not clear)

Cyril Shroff: We are full competitors and we are both mature people and will not do anything to destabilise each other. That is probably the best answer I can give.

Doshi: Non-poaching agreements for employees?

Cyril Shroff: I think I said what I had to, did I not?

Doshi: But, that was for clients, right? Non-poaching of clients?

Cyril Shroff: Clients are full competitors. I have no further obligation not to compete. As with any other compare in the market, we are both mature firms. Even in the re-incarnate. (Interrupted)

Doshi: But you are not telling me whether you have a non-compete with Shardul or… (Interrupted)

Cyril Shroff: I am not going to tell you. I am not going to answer that question.  

Doshi: So, I assume then that you do have a non-compete with Shardul and you do have…
Cyril Shroff: Well, you can draw your own inferences.

Doshi: Well, if you didn’t then you would just say no, we do not, that we are competing in full 100 percent intensity?

Cyril Shroff: We are mature enough not to do anything silly.  

Doshi: Well, what will it be like to compete with your brother?

Cyril Shroff: I respect him as a professional. We will be on opposite sides on many deals as the firms and it is not just about Cyril or Shardul, it is about the larger firm. There are so many other professionals many of whom you know as well so we will just land up being on opposite sides of transaction, it releases a lot more conflicts of interest. There were so many matters we were not able to act for because there was a conflict in the firm. Opportunity has doubled, other firms should worry more.

Doshi: Do you fear that this split has in some ways has diffused the value of the Amarchand brand? It was the go-to brand for any large foreign company coming to India, it was the go to brand for all large business houses in the country. Will it diffuse the brand?

Cyril Shroff: I don’t think so, it is going to enhance the brand for the simple reason that there would be much more focus on the market rather than internal issues. So, time will tell and we can have the same conversation a year from now.

Doshi: It is interesting when you answer that question, you seem to imply that the market focus and not the internal issues focus…

Cyril Shroff: It is always the case, once you start focusing on the market you are more client focused, you are more people focused.

Doshi: How will Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas be different from Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff?

Cyril Shroff: Firstly, Amarchand Mangaldas was a very successful firm for the same reasons that you just mentioned and it was not just because of size, it was of sheer market presence, the client following, the kind of partners and talent that we had, the kind of transactions and matters that we did all of that combined into making the firm, the iconic firm that it was and even today is. So it has done a lot of things right, it may have done some things wrong so as I embark on this new journey, I am going to take the best from the past and build upon it going forward so in the lead up to the starting of the new firm I spent a lot of time and took a lot of advice from management consultants, I spent a lot with BCG, I got a London based international law firm to write my new constitution. We had extensive meetings with the partnership, the constitution agreement was negotiated with 60 partners so everybody has had an input into it, it is not something which just came in my mind and said okay here sign this. So, it’s been a great team effort, we believe that the way forward and the vision that is embodied in the constitution is a 100 year vision and it is if I can say so, an outrageously ambitious vision to be the best firm. We have set ourselves on being the best firm in Asia in five years and that is where we want to go, we don’t want to go for second prize.  

Doshi: So what does this constitution have in it that would be different from let’s say the constitution of the erstwhile Amarchand?

Cyril Shroff: This is the partnership arrangements, so the governance structure, the compensation structure, the strategy.  

Doshi: Can you give us some more details on how they are different just to give us a sense of how you are doing things differently or that you now have the liberty for a new approach?

Cyril Shroff: And it has also got the flexibility to adjust to the future so we have set out a vision for the next ten years in three phases, phase one, phase two and phase three. Phase one is the first five years of the growth where I want to focus primarily on the domestic market. I do not want to distract myself by international expansion. How is it that I want to serve India and the Indian market best, so that is phase one and the kind of structures that you need, where do we need offices, what kind of talent, what kind of practice area, this is all part of a fairly detailed deliberation on phase one. In that the governance model that we have chosen is a single leader model which is supported by a number of firm committees with multiple partners on different aspects of firm governance. This is a very different kind of model and we deliberated on it in terms of making sure that all the right contributions from the rest of the non-family-there is lot of ‘non-Shroff’ talent in the firm which is something which I want to really benefit from and then going forward how we move to a more partnership council kind of model going in phase two into international expansion, the sky is the limit.

Doshi: It is interesting you mentioned single leader model. One of the questions I did want to put you today is the criticism that not just law firms in this country but businesses tend to draw is that they are founded by families and then somehow the family is never able to detach itself and just restrain itself to ownership, continues in management and never ends up professionalising management with the exception of a very few or handful of companies that have successfully made their transition. This is as chronic a problem in the space of law firms. Do you see yourself professionalizing Amarchand whereby, because when you said single leader model that still is a Shroff dependant model isn’t it then?

Cyril Shroff: Just happens to be that the single leader at this point of time is Shroff.

Doshi: Will it not for the foreseeable future be a Shroff?

Cyril Shroff: Till I am around at least for a next foreseeable future or I intend to be and that is what the partnership.

Doshi: Or the next generation, your children?

Cyril Shroff: We are not talking of future generation; I am only taking about myself.

Doshi: As of know you are the single leader?

Cyril Shroff: Absolutely.

Doshi: What happens 5-10 years because you are know building out for the next 50-100 years?

Cyril Shroff: That is something which we will cross that bridge at that point of time, but it is the broader partnership which will take the decision.  

Doshi: What are your thoughts on professionalizing law firms?  

Cyril Shroff: The amount of time and energy that we spend on devising this structure is for creating a professional partnership. Today, whether it is Cyril Amarchand or in its erstwhile form as well we still attract with the best talent. Why would best talent come, if they thought that were only sort of partnering with the dynasty. They pretty much realise that this is very professional environment, there is a meritocracy over here, talent is rewarded and those values will continue. The values are not going anywhere.  

Doshi: In talking with your colleagues on this and devising or writing up this constitution were there any concerns about how you would plan succession? I asked you a question that I have often asked you in context of other businesses and other business leaders. Today I am asking you in you personal context?

Cyril Shroff: It will be a partnership decision and that is the decision we took.

Doshi: You have 91 partners as of now, are they all equity partners?

Cyril Shroff: They are mix, they are tier-II partnerships.

Doshi: They will make the decision hereon?

Cyril Shroff: The Governance Council will make that decision.

Doshi: Do you foresee and again I am asking you from the point of view that today you stand on the threshold of being able to craft your ambition into a firm of your liking. Do you foresee in let us say 20-50 years down the line that while the Shroff family will continue to have a dominant ownership position in the firm, that some day in fact you might even have that single leader being a non Shroff?  

Cyril Shroff: That is clearly possible.  

Doshi: You say so standing here today?  

Cyril Shroff: The partnership knows it. The Shroff family has always done what is right for the firm and we will continue to of that. Time will tell, what is right for the firm.

Doshi: Just to come back a little bit more near-term, how long do you expect you will be running this firm. I am not suggesting that you should get off anytime soon but I am just curious, in this process to attempt to professionalize have you set in time limits for yourself?  

Cyril Shroff: I am 55 and I have designed this structure with a plan that in the next 10 years I will try and achieve as much as possible what I want to do. So, there is a sort of a plan phasing out and passing off the baton at the end of 10 years. I don’t want to be the hindrance for the firm’s growth.  

Doshi: Who will you then at that point pass the baton on to?  

Cyril Shroff: It is a decision that we will take as partnership together by collective decision. I am not going to just pre decide what that will be.  

Doshi: How do you future proof your constitution to make sure that what has happened to Amarchand does not happen to Cyril Amarchand Shroff?  

Cyril Shroff: We have spent a lot of time. As I said I have spent more than 1500 hours designing this constitution with the help of national and international experts. We have thought it very deeply and we have done a very watertight constitution in terms of partnership arrangements as well as family arrangement to the extent that they need to bind this. I am very comfortable that that is going to be where it will stand the test of time.  

Doshi: If for instance, god forbid, there are ever any differences of opinion within your family, the firm will not get impacted in any fashion?  

Cyril Shroff: The firm is ring-fenced.

Doshi: The firm is ring-fenced which is what you’ll had hoped to do with Amarchand but unfortunately that did not workout.

Cyril Shroff: That is in the past.  

Doshi: So here onwards it will be?

Cyril Shroff: I am looking only at making sure that the firm is ring-fenced from the family even though the family will be its biggest supporter and sponsor.  

Doshi: You spoke of geographical expansion, we have spoken a little bit about your Delhi office, give us a little bit more details on when this new office will be up and running because you already have an entrenched position in Mumbai so I don’t need to ask about that but Delhi and then other offices across the country, what is your geographical expansion plan?  

Cyril Shroff: My focus just now is only on Delhi in addition to the offices that I will manage from the legacy. I am going for scale there as well. We are opening an office in Saket which on day one as I said will be a nearly about just a little less than 100 lawyers with scope for more. In short the vision in the next three years is to have Mumbai and Delhi about equal and the markets there.  

Doshi: What about offices in Hyderabad or Ahmedabad which were under the erstwhile structure, offices that worked under Shardul’s supervision?

Cyril Shroff: Those markets are smaller relative to Mumbai and Delhi. So, we need to be there but not in the same scale.

Doshi: You will setup presence but not substantial presence?

Cyril Shroff: I already have offices.  

Doshi: So those become then part of what your firm will be running from hereon?

Cyril Shroff: That is right.

Doshi: You said that your first five year plan is to focus on domestic market and not look at international expansion at least for the first five years. Do you see yourself as in the business of acquiring law firms to add rapidly to your growing size right now?

Cyril Shroff: We have already done that, we were quite too small firm. Some of it is in the public domain.

Doshi: In the last few months?

Cyril Shroff: In the last few weeks.

Doshi: In the last few weeks, can you share any details of that?

Cyril Shroff: There are some which is already available in the public media, a firm called MNK which is a midsized firm; they have merged fully with and will merge of course prospectively.

Doshi: This is located where?

Cyril Shroff: In Delhi. A very fine high quality, but sort of small firm.

Doshi: Specialised in any one area of law?

Cyril Shroff: Corporate, real estate, litigation.

Doshi: So, varied?

Cyril Shroff: Varied. This is one example. So I will do more.

Doshi: So you are bringing how many employees there?

Cyril Shroff: So, mergers is not my strategy because it comes with a lot of baggage. So the basic strategy is cherry picking talent from the market laterally and I am having some partners and associates move from Mumbai as well, those who have an inclination to grow in Delhi.

Doshi: Five years down the line how many employees do you expect to have? Today you said you are roughly at 560 and counting.

Cyril Shroff: I am going back to our original vision which is by 2017 or 2018 to be a thousand lawyer firm.

Doshi: What does that translate into, the number of partners or there is no such linear connection?

Cyril Shroff: There is no direct linear connection but a good firm of that would be somewhere around 150 to 200 lawyers, partners would be the rough number.

Doshi: So at one time the thousand target was for the combined strength of both Shroff brother’s? Today you are saying you are going to do it entirely alone by 2017-18?

Cyril Shroff: That is the plan.

Doshi: That is an ambitious plan and in that sense…

Cyril Shroff: It is very achievable.

Doshi: Also speaks of the confidence in the business environment then?

Cyril Shroff: Look at this market, look at how big India is, look at how the world is looking at us, it is a small firm for the size of the market.

Doshi: So that brings me also then to your outlook on how you expect legal services to grow in the years to come, where you expect most of the growth to come from and therefore how will you be orienting some of the specializations in your firm, what does the economic environment look to you right now?

Cyril Shroff: Disregarding some of the sort of present cynicism about how the economy is evolving, I am very optimistic about the next ten year period. India’s time has come and that is the main reason why I am focusing on the Indian market first. Opening foreign offices would be too distracting, the kind of quality of talent that is available here is outstanding and I am getting more and more by the day.

I am very hopeful of the Indian legal market going towards next level and from time to time in a market there are disruptive events. This is one of them, the next disruptive  event will be when the market opens up for sort of foreign legal firms and whenever that happens I am not too close to that debate but it will happen at some stage.

Doshi: You mentioned this as disruptive. What impact do you expect the fact that the two Shroff brothers are now going it alone, what impact do you think that it will have on competitor firms?

Cyril Shroff: I am going to speak for myself. There is my firm which is going to be very hungry, very foolish, to quote a famous man and we will be founded on the right values. We can be a big aggregator of talent.

Doshi: So, you are saying currently competitors have two Shroffs to fear as opposed to one Shroff to fear, one combined Shroff?

Cyril Shroff: Competitors can think what they want.

Doshi: That is what you said earlier right?

Cyril Shroff: Double-trouble.

Doshi: It is a good thing. We are now double-trouble?

Cyril Shroff: Probably.

Doshi: How do you really expect that, you must have thought through this? I know how you look at the ripple effects of moves and changes and transitions. In your assessment, how is the industry going to be impacted by two, one top-firm becoming two top-firms and both wanting to grow rapidly? We are already seeing some of that play out in all the rumour mongering going around and the people that are moving and the partners that are being hired from other firms, etc.

Cyril Shroff: The era of fragmentation is over. Now it is the era of consolidation. The firms that have a strong technically sound entrepreneur in the centre of it will win.  

Doshi: But even now we here everyday of new firms being set up by partners splintering from existing firms, moving out. So, are you that confident that this is going to be a period of consolidation?

Cyril Shroff: I am seeing it play out live everyday. It is impossible on a complex matter for a client to trust a firm that does not have all the skills. You need competition expertise, you need tax expertise, you need litigation expertise, you need financial services expertise, for a complex problem, it typically is a large firm which would have these skill sets to handle this. And therefore for big work, big to medium-sized work with multiple disciplines, it is back to the age of big firms.  

Doshi: I am just looking at some of the RSG rankings based on the number of lawyers. And these numbers maybe slightly outdated or may need to be updated. But the erstwhile Mangaldas was somewhere around 650 and more, you corrected us and said it was more than 700. Right after you was Khaitan with more than 350, that has also increased that number. J Sagar was at 337, AZB was around 300 and then there was Luthra and Luthra that was also around 300. You five made up the top five firms in the country.

Cyril Shroff: They call it the big-five or the big-six. That something which media invented.

Doshi: When you speak of consolidation, are you expecting consolidation amongst the big-six or the big-five or do you expect more consolidation will happen in the tail-end?

Cyril Shroff: A bit more in the tail-end to start with. Personally my strategy is not merger.

Doshi: You may not want to merge with anybody else, but do you when you look at the competition, believe that maybe there is interest there to come together and create one big combined entity of some sort?

Cyril Shroff: I do not think so. It is too complicated.

Doshi: Can you explain to us why it is too complicated?

Cyril Shroff: I do not think the market is culturally ready for those kind of big mergers to happen. Personalities, market, it is not a very high paying, it is still low-fee market. When you compare mergers in the west, say with US or UK, those are firms which have very high margin businesses and it is easier to do that over here. Different profitability levels is a big problem. You have to take a decision of how much you want to dilute your profitability when you do a merger.

Doshi: So, you are not expecting much consolidation in the top-five or top-six.

Cyril Shroff: I do not think so. There may be small consolidation of firms below 10 merging with maybe a few of the big-six, that could happen, or some smaller firms getting together. Unless, I am completely wrong and I am happy to be corrected, I do not see any big mergers happening.

Doshi: The other big disruptive force that you spoke of is the entry of foreign law firms. We have discussed this before, but opinions have changed in the last five years. Is India ready now for foreign lawyers to come here and practice?  

Cyril Shroff: I think the early sounds are there now and at least now there is a market with so many very good large firms. So, that is almost a pre-condition to the entry of international competition. This was a big driver in my strategy in terms of how I thought of the vision for the new firm which is I want this to be the first global quality large Indian professional services firm and I think I can do it. I am not benchmarking myself only with the local market, I am very much looking out at what is going to come.  

Doshi: When you say what is going to come, it is almost as if you are preparing for a change in the laws and the rules.

Cyril Shroff: Undoubtedly. I do not know when that will happen, but I want to be ready for it.

Doshi: There was a time if I remember correctly that you were not very keen. You thought that the Indian legal services market was still too young and this was not too many years ago. This was five, six years ago, that you thought we were still too young to allow the entry of foreign law firms here. Have you changed your mind hence?

Cyril Shroff: I had in fact called it a cottage industry at that time. I think it has moved up, it is probably a small and medium-sized enterprise (SME) kind of thing. But there is not enough of structure yet, but it is a journey that has to be traversed and I am ready for it.  

Doshi: So, today you would not oppose the entry of foreign law firms in the country if the political masters decided to open the door for them?

Cyril Shroff: I think we are all prepared for it. I can answer for a number of other leaders at the bar, we are all mentally prepared for it. So, it is not a question about opposition or not opposition, it is a question of are you ready for it. And I am certainly getting ready for it.


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